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Phoenix Wright
(This all seems so horribly familiar somehow...)
Stepladder

Is it a ladder or stepladder?

A conversation between the protagonist and his assistant about the difference between a ladder and a stepladder is a recurring joke in the Ace Attorney series that has appeared in every game in the series to date, with the exception of The Great Ace Attorney: Adventures.

The first instance was in Turnabout Samurai, the third case of Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, with a stepladder reappearing in at least one location in each game to date (with the notable exception of The Great Ace Attorney: Adventures), sometimes in several locations, for the sole purpose of continuing the "tradition". Upon examination, the protagonist and a partner character engage in an argument on the usage of the words "ladder" and "stepladder", and the difference between them. One usually accuses the other of being too absorbed in the details instead of looking at the big picture and realizing that stepladders and other ladders serve roughly the same function. The latter's response to this varies. Similar gags involving other items have been used on occasion over the series, with The Great Ace Attorney duology in particular primarily using a "shovel vs. spade" variation of the debate instead.

In its original incarnations, Phoenix Wright makes the distinction and Maya Fey warns him not to rely on "narrow-minded cultural assumptions". However, in later instances of the gag, the protagonist fills Maya Fey's role.

Although such a conversation does not directly occur in the crossover Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney, two references are made to the recurring joke.

The console/PC ports of the Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney and Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney Trilogies, as well as The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles, have achievements for finding every ladder vs. stepladder conversation. These achievements are called "Ladders Vs. Stepladders", "Ladders and Stepladders", and "The Top Rung", respectively. The Great Ace Attorney Chronicles also has an achievement called "Ace of Spades" for finding all shovel vs. spade conversations.

Quotes[]

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney[]

Maya Fey
Look, a ladder!
Phoenix Wright
That's a "step"-ladder.
Maya Fey
So? What's the difference? You need to stop judging things based on narrow-minded cultural assumptions, Nick!
Phoenix Wright
R-right... sorry. (This girl is OUT there!)
Ema Skye
Ah huh! A ladder.
Phoenix Wright
Um... That's a step ladder.
Ema Skye
What's the difference? In scientific terms, please.
Phoenix Wright
S-scientific huh?
Ema Skye
Look at the basic nature of things, Mr. Wright.
Phoenix Wright
(This all seems so horribly familiar somehow...)

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Justice for All[]

Maya Fey
Ah, a ladder.
Phoenix Wright
It's just a stepladder.
Maya Fey
What's the difference? They do the same thing, right? I think you should stick with the basic facts of the matter.
Phoenix Wright
Oh... Uh... OK. (It's not even worth arguing with her on this one.)

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations[]

Maya Fey
Look, a ladder!
Phoenix Wright
That's a "step"-ladder.
Maya Fey
So? What's the difference? You need to stop judging things based on narrow-minded cultural assumptions, Nick!
Phoenix Wright
R-Right... sorry. (Why do I feel like we've had this exact same conversation before somewhere...?)
Dick Gumshoe
Look, a ladder!
Phoenix Wright
That's a "step"-ladder.
Dick Gumshoe
What's the difference? Looks like a normal ladder to me, pal.
Phoenix Wright
(Surely everyone knows the difference... I mean, they're pretty ordinary objects...)
Dick Gumshoe
I've met plenty of guys like you, always picking on the smallest details. The vegetable store guy near my place does it all the time. He even corrects me when I ask for a head of lettuce. "That's a cabbage," he says. I'm telling you, they're the exact same thing!
Phoenix Wright
No they're not! They're completely different!
Dick Gumshoe
You have to plant both of them firmly in the ground before they can grow, don't you? Listen. You gotta take a step back and look at the bigger picture sometimes. Otherwise you could miss a really important clue. That's advice from a pro, pal!
Phoenix Wright
(...The last person I need advice from is this guy in front of me.)

Apollo Justice: Ace Attorney[]

Apollo Justice
Look, it's a folding ladder.
Trucy Wright
Polly! That's called a "stepladder"! C'mon!
Apollo Justice
...A stepladder? How is that different from a regular ladder then?
Trucy Wright
It's a much more complex piece of machinery. It's like two ladders stuck together!
Apollo Justice
...So you admit that basically it's a ladder, right?
Trucy Wright
Wait... Huh?
Apollo Justice
You have to look past the form... at the essence of the thing.
Trucy Wright
Er... Can we talk about something else?
Apollo Justice
Look, a ladder. I guess they need one to work on the lights and such.
Trucy Wright
Why don't they use a stepladder? I prefer stepladders, really ...Is that so wrong?
Apollo Justice
Not wrong, just... well, why do you prefer stepladders?
Trucy Wright
...... They're so much more flexible than plain old ladders!
Apollo Justice
...... (I prefer my ladders rigid and stable, thank you.)
Apollo Justice
Huh, another ladder.
Trucy Wright
Actually, it's technically a stepladder.
Apollo Justice
Well hello, Ms. Fancy Pants! Please forgive my lack of ladder discrimination.
Trucy Wright
! ......
Ema Skye
I'm less worried about the stepladder, and more worried about why it's there.
Apollo Justice
(Why is the ladder there? Well, to climb, right? To reach something on the ceiling?)
Trucy Wright
...... I still say it's a stepladder.

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Dual Destinies[]

Athena Cykes
There really is no escaping here through the air duct.
Apollo Justice
And here we went through all the trouble of bringing a ladder to check it out.
Athena Cykes
That's not a ladder, Apollo. It's a stepladder.
Apollo Justice
What's the difference? They both have the word ladder in them.
Athena Cykes
What's the difference. ..?.. .. .. .. .. ..Oh, I know! Let's play rock, paper scissors to decide who's right!
Apollo Justice
You're way too competitive. And it's not even related to the original issue, either!

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice[]

Mayaallgrown

Maya Fey moving on?

Maya Fey
I'm going to keep it real from now on. And you should, too, Nick.
Phoenix Wright
(I thought you said I was the boring one because I was "keeping it real"...?)
Maya Fey
Sorry, I guess I've outgrown that stepladder argument we always have...
Phoenix Wright
I think you mean "ladder," Maya.

Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth[]

StepLadder

Different people. Similar conversation.

Miles Edgeworth
Hmm... A ladder.
Kay Faraday
Actually, that's a step-ladder.
Miles Edgeworth
They're the exact same thing.
Kay Faraday
No way! From their structure up, they're totally different! But of course, from a thief's perspective, the best kind of ladder is the rope-ladder. A step-ladder is much too heavy to carry around, after all.
Miles Edgeworth
(And from a prosecutor's perspective, any type of ladder is guilty... of being dangerous during an earthquake.)

Gyakuten Kenji 2[]

This article contains information about Ace Attorney media that has been released only in Japan.
SSJ

The information in this article comes from a game, demo, or other media that has been released in Japan, but not in any predominantly English-speaking country. The subject of this article has been officially revealed for English versions of this media. English versions of this content are only available through unofficial translations. More information on this can be found here.

If you have personal experience with the item of media in question, you can help the Ace Attorney Wiki by improving on this article. Please heed the manual of style when adding information.

Tyrell Badd
...What is it, Mr. Attorney? Something about that ladder bothering you..?
Gregory Edgeworth
Detective Badd. It's actually a stepladder.
Tyrell Badd
...They're both the same to me...
Gregory Edgeworth
They're completely different. Look at their basic nature.
Raymond Shields
Yeah, Mr. Edgeworth... You tell him!
The Inherited Turnabout (quotation from unofficial fan translation)

The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve[]

This article contains information about Ace Attorney media that has been
recently released and thus likely contains spoilers!
Steel Samurai
The information in this article comes from a game, demo, or other media that has been recently released worldwide. This article may need input from an editor who has personal experience with the media in question. If you have, you can help the Ace Attorney Wiki by expanding this article. Please heed the manual of style when adding information.

Readers of this page should be aware that this article likely contains MAJOR SPOILERS concerning the media in question.

You have been warned!

Iris Wilson
Oh! That's a funny place for a little ladder.
Iris Wilson
What is it? Is something wrong?
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
No, it's just that in Japanese, we have a totally different word for a ladder that folds in half like that.
Iris Wilson
We do in English, too, you know. It's a stepladder, or just 'steps'. So be careful of making assumptions about other cultures, Runo. That's how wars are started.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
(...I didn't realise stepladders were an international point of contention. But the writer makes an astute point.)
Susato Mikotoba
Ah, there's a stepladder there, look.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
Oh... Yes... A stepladder...
Susato Mikotoba
I think perhaps we should let the proprietress know that someone's left it out. The stepladder, I mean.
Susato Mikotoba
Is something wrong?
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
(Why do I feel as though I just managed to sidestep an argument...?)

Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney[]

Hershel Layton
They've built a house up on a tree. How inventive. They must use a series of ladders to reach the top.
Maya Fey
I knew you were smart, Professor! You do NOT want to hear Nick's thoughts on ladders, trust me.
Maya Fey
According to this floor plan...there's a bell on the floor above this one.
Phoenix Wright
Well, it is a bell tower... It'd be kind of strange if there was no bell.
Maya Fey
Yeah, but...there's no sign of any ladder leading up to the next level.
Phoenix Wright
Or even a stepladder... (Does that mean the bell can't be rung?)

Non-ladder/stepladder variations[]

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Trials and Tribulations[]

Maya Fey
Whoa! It's a huge hearth!
Phoenix Wright
That's a fireplace.
Maya Fey
So? What's the difference? You need to stop judging things based on narrow-minded cultural assumptions, Nick!

Phoenix Wright: Ace Attorney - Spirit of Justice[]

Apollo Justice
Is this a bird?
Dhurke Sahdmadhi
It looks like an airplane to me.
Apollo Justice
No, there couldn't have been any planes back when this was made.
Dhurke Sahdmadhi
Yes, but it has wings and both horizontal and vertical stabilizers. That makes it an airplane.
Apollo Justice
No, it's definitely a bird.
Dhurke Sahdmadhi
Open your eyes, son... As a lawyer, your job is to see the true nature of things.
Apollo Justice
(I still say it's a bird.)
Athena Cykes
Eeewww... Is that a newt?
Apollo Justice
Come on, Athena. Can't you tell a gecko when you see one?
Athena Cykes
What's the difference?
Apollo Justice
Geckos like to live in houses, while newts prefer to be outside near water. They're totally different creatures.
Athena Cykes
Well, how do you know this one wasn't caught outside near some water? It could very well be a gecko.
Apollo Justice
No, I'm pretty sure it's a newt.
Athena Cykes
Oh, so then you agree it's a newt, Apollo?
Apollo Justice
Ack! (I fell right into her trap!)
Phoenix Wright
You're both wrong. It's just a plain old lizard.
Apollo Justice
(There's a golden lion keeping watch at the entrance.)
Apollo Justice
...That frog looks like it's cowering under the lion's glare.
Athena Cykes
Really? 'Cause to me, it looks like the frog is glaring at the lion.
Apollo Justice
Come on, Athena. How does that make any sense?
Athena Cykes
Huh? I just call 'em as I see 'em.
Apollo Justice
(I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.)
Phoenix Wright
This must be the lantern the body was found in. Ellen managed to move it quite a ways. It looks like... a cow, but it's pretty badly broken.
Maya Fey
That's not a cow, Nick. That's Pegasus, the flying horse.
Phoenix Wright
No way. It's definitely a cow. It's got horns and everything.
Maya Fey
But look, it has wings! Cows don't have wings. So it's Pegasus, I tell you!
Maya Fey
Oh, I know! That pamphlet should tell us! Let's see... Apparently, it's called a "Pegamoo."
Phoenix Wright
I-I did not see that coming.
Maya Fey
Yet somehow, the name really captures the essence of what this creature is, you know?

Ace Attorney Investigations: Miles Edgeworth[]

Dick Gumshoe
That's a really big floaty! But isn't it a bit too early in the year for swimming?
Miles Edgeworth
Detective, that is not for swimming. It's a lifesaver.
Dick Gumshoe
So you can't swim with one of these?
Miles Edgeworth
No... I mean, I suppose you could, but that's not what they are intended for...
Dick Gumshoe
Well then, see, it's the same as a floaty! You shouldn't go around confusing people, sir!
Miles Edgeworth
(... Why do I feel like I've just kicked a puppy?)

Gyakuten Kenji 2[]

This article contains information about Ace Attorney media that has been released only in Japan.
SSJ

The information in this article comes from a game, demo, or other media that has been released in Japan, but not in any predominantly English-speaking country. The subject of this article has been officially revealed for English versions of this media. English versions of this content are only available through unofficial translations. More information on this can be found here.

If you have personal experience with the item of media in question, you can help the Ace Attorney Wiki by improving on this article. Please heed the manual of style when adding information.

Kay Faraday
It's a cage inside the cage that is the prison. It's like cage-ception!
Miles Edgeworth
I believe the correct term is "prison cell".
Kay Faraday
They're the same thing! You need to look more at the essence of things.
Miles Edgeworth
...Actually, it's more important to get the correct information.
The Imprisoned Turnabout (quotation from unofficial fan translation)

The Great Ace Attorney: Adventures[]

This article contains information about Ace Attorney media that has been
recently released and thus likely contains spoilers!
Steel Samurai
The information in this article comes from a game, demo, or other media that has been recently released worldwide. This article may need input from an editor who has personal experience with the media in question. If you have, you can help the Ace Attorney Wiki by expanding this article. Please heed the manual of style when adding information.

Readers of this page should be aware that this article likely contains MAJOR SPOILERS concerning the media in question.

You have been warned!

Ryunosuke Naruhodo
That spade has been in here since we started renting the place.
Susato Mikotoba
Oh, that's not a spade, Naruhodo-san. It's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
No, shovels are for digging. That's for scooping up loose material. It's a spade.
Susato Mikotoba
No, spades are for digging. That's for scooping up loose material. It's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
...I don't want to dig a hole for myself. So let's leave it.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
That spade has been in here since we started renting the place.
Iris Wilson
Runo! That's not a spade, it's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
Ah. You're a shoveller, are you? I had a feeling you'd pick me up on that.
Iris Wilson
Oh no...a pick is something else entirely.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
(...Now I've dug myself into an even deeper hole.)

The Great Ace Attorney 2: Resolve[]

This article contains information about Ace Attorney media that has been
recently released and thus likely contains spoilers!
Steel Samurai
The information in this article comes from a game, demo, or other media that has been recently released worldwide. This article may need input from an editor who has personal experience with the media in question. If you have, you can help the Ace Attorney Wiki by expanding this article. Please heed the manual of style when adding information.

Readers of this page should be aware that this article likely contains MAJOR SPOILERS concerning the media in question.

You have been warned!

Ryunosuke Naruhodo
The office spade... Now that Susato-san's gone, the shovellers aren't represented to correct me. ......... Maybe I'll have to do it myself. 'That's not a spade, Naruhodo-san; it's a shovel!'
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
Perhaps we should put this spade away somewhere.
Susato Mikotoba
That's not a spade, Naruhodo-san; it's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
No, shovels are for digging. That's for scooping up loose material. It's a spade.
Susato Mikotoba
No, spades are for digging. That's for scooping up loose material. It's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
......... Well, it doesn't really matter, does it?
Susato Mikotoba
You're so right, Naruhodo-san. We mustn't quarrel over such trifles.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
On reflection then, I think I'll leave this spade where it is.
Susato Mikotoba
Yes, I think that's for the best. We may need a shovel when we're working in the garden.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
The office spade... Now that Miss Susato's gone, the shovellers aren't represented to correct me. ......... Maybe I'll have to do it myself. 'That's not a spade, Mr Naruhodo; it's a shovel!'
Iris Wilson
Ah, so you're a spader, are you, Runo? What, you want to battle it out?
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
(Alright, I'm not going to argue with a native English speaker...who has some kind of gun...)
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
Thinking back, that spade's been in here since we first moved in, hasn't it?
Susato Mikotoba
I'm sure I've told you before, Mr Naruhodo. It's not a spade; it's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
No, shovels are for digging. That's for scooping up loose material. It's a spade.
Susato Mikotoba
No, spades are for digging. That's for scooping up loose material. It's...a...shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
(The great spade-shovel war rages on...)
Susato Mikotoba
What a large shovel... He's holding it rather ominously, isn't he? What on earth was the man doing with a shovel in a graveyard in the middle of the night?
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
Um...Miss Susato...
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
That's...a spade, isn't it?
Susato Mikotoba
......... No, it's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
No, no, shovels are for digging. That's for scooping up loose material. It's a spade.
Susato Mikotoba
We've been through this, Mr Naruhodo. It's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
No no no. Although...we haven't considered trowels...
Susato Mikotoba
......... We've allowed ourselves to be distracted, I feel. Perhaps we should concentrate on what the man was doing with the implement.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
(So we're going to bury the hatchet?) You're right, though... What was the man doing in the graveyard in the first place, that's the real question.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
The spade is still here, look.
Susato Mikotoba
Please, Mr Naruhodo. It's not a spade, as I think you well know. It's a shovel.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
(It didn't take long to reignite that old argument.)
Susato Mikotoba
Ah, I have an idea! Let's give the implement a name, like Professor Harebrayne named his tools.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
Ooh! I never thought of doing that.
Susato Mikotoba
From now on, let's call it 'Ryunosuke'.
Ryunosuke Naruhodo
No no no no! It's clearly much more of a 'Susato'! (The old argument has taken a new and unexpected turn, it seems...)

Cultural references[]

  • In the 2009 point-and-click adventure game Another Code: R – A Journey into Lost Memories the player can examine a stepladder in a boathouse. Upon doing so, protagonist Ashley Mizuki Robbins calls it a ladder, before correcting herself and remembering that it's actually a stepladder. She then ponders what the difference even is between the two. This was likely intended as a reference to the running Ace Attorney joke.
  • Birth ME Code is another investigative mystery game that references the debate, although the character Ancora fails to get anyone to engage in the debate with her.
  • The 2015 adventure game Aviary Attorney is a storyboard attorney game like Ace Attorney set in 1840s France, which contains many references to and parodies of Ace Attorney, including the main characters Jayjay Falcon and Sparrowson referencing the stepladder debate during a search for clues.
  • In the 2021 adventure game Buddy Mission Bond, the character Mokuma can examine a stepladder during an infiltration section in Chapter Four and question whether it is a ladder or a stepladder.
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